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know, he gets a lot of grief on civil rights. and it's true he did not use the bully pulpit. he could have done a better job on that. but he was a subtle guy. he desegregated d.c. when people weren't watching. he desegregated the armed services. it wasn't truman. he appointed all the federal judges that desegregated the south. he believed in moving, as john was saying, with a hidden hand. that's true on civil rights as well. he's been unfairly criticized for being weak on civil rights. he was not as strong as he could have been, but he did things behind the scenes that were important. >> let's talk, presidential historian, jon meacham, who has a book coming out after the election that's forthcoming. "thomas jefferson, t.j." ike, a good president? a near great president? or a great president? >> i would say he's great. i think that he -- one of the things we haven't talked about on the domestic side is he ratified what franklin roosevelt and harry truman had done in that he could have created -- in 1952, '53, the political climate, i think, and check me on this, evan, was such that if
. so many women spent lives to make sure i have a political voice and same thing in the civil rights movement. so many people fought so i could express my views and vote and have a say. i never want to take that for granted. not as a celebrity but as an american. >> we just showed the brief clip of you speaking at the convention. >> i was really nervous. i get paid to be other people for a living. to speak as other people. as the convention i was speaking as myself in a room that big and the stakes are so high in this election. i felt like it was a tremendous honor and a big responsibility. i kind of prefer being other people. >> that's an incredible room. energy in there. you get off one line and you feel the energy come back to you and it kind of builds. >> really exciting. >> i think we have a clip of you speaking. let's listen. >> today there are people out there trying to take away rights that our mothers, our grandmothers and our great grandmothers fought for. rights that we fought for. our right to vote. our right to choose. our right to affordable, quality education. equal pa
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